Francis Berger
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Why the Dreadful Discernment Among Those Who Champion Ultimacy?

12/15/2025

6 Comments

 
​Ultimacy advocates invest great time and energy casting sinuous word spells to convince you that they and the historical legion of theologians, philosophers, and church fathers they mimic and echo have God and reality all figured out, and that all you need to do in turn is respectfully and humbly bow your head and join the club. 

At the same time, those who assert ultimacy also tend to be among the worst at discernment in this time and place, which leads to a rather glaring paradox. 

You would think that all those prolix proclamations about the true nature of God and Creation would provide ultimacy upholders with a distinct advantage when it comes to things like discerning good from evil; however, for some mysterious reason, it does not.
On the contrary, they consistently rank among the worst at discernment. 

I find that odd and unsettling. All that philosophy, theology, and tradition rendered instantly meaningless and useless when confronted with something like AI, the birdemic scam, the 2020 church lockdowns, or mundane politics.

Well, not entirely meaningless and useless because ultimacy aficionados will inevitably utilize all the philosophy, theology, and tradition they can muster to elaborately elucidate why none of the above are actually evil, thereby compounding the problem.
 
Although I have no definitive answer as to why discernment among ultimacy defenders leans toward the disastrous, I strongly suspect the cause lies in their core assumptions (re: assertions) about reality, particularly their assumptions about evil and freedom. 
 
Fittingly enough, ultimacy proponents do not seem troubled by their poor discernment. I suspect the nonchalance stems from loving a good mystery; and let's face it, at the end of the day, there is nothing those ultimacy chaps love more than mystery.

​For them, reality ultimately ends there anyway. 
6 Comments
bruce g charlton
12/15/2025 20:49:34

I had a friend who was a member of the Socialist Workers Party. They adhered to the traditional Bolshevik form of "discernment"; such that when something happened in the world (or the news) they would call an emergency meeting, and the members were told how to understand it and what to think about it.

Apparently, this most notoriously happened with the German-Soviet pact of 1940; when literally from one day to the next, the communist parties of The West went from a couple of decades of being fanatically anti-Nazi to ... Not.

Most people nowadays get their "what should I think about?" questions answered by their favoured mass media.

But plenty of Christians do the same with respect to their churches. Of course there is always an act of personal discernment in choosing to whom one will hand-over discernment.

But once this has been done, that personal choice can be "forgotten" so that a fantasy of self-effacing, humble obedience can be sustained!

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Francis Berger
12/16/2025 07:15:43

@ Bruce - Forgetting personal choice to maintain the fantasy of obedience is a hallmark of all ideologies, no doubt; however, what I was aiming may strike at something deeper. Ultimacy, with its vehement emphasis on God as the sole source of everything, the ground upon which everything depends for existence, leaves too much (or too little, depending on your perspective) on the table in terms of discernment.

AI is a good example of this. If everything is ultimately from God, then human-subcreated AI must also be part of the divine plan; hence, it's a useful tool. Neutral at worst, but good if employed for good purposes. How about church closures? Well, hey, God is the ultimate head of the church, so he must have been okay with that. Otherwise they would not have happened. The birdemic? Nothing compared to the black plague, which was worse (the comparison amounts to little more than an obvious evasion of the evil inherent in the birdemic), and so forth.

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bruce g charlton
12/16/2025 09:30:45

OK - got that now.

To my way of thinking, I find that when the ultimacy of God is being taken fully seriously - which is actually quite rare: for example the devil is usually referenced as if he was a separate ultimate cause - it collapses into Oneness/ timeless spirituality of a Hindu-ish kind. Including the "fatalism" of which you speak.

But then - if somebody really believed that; then they would never speak of it (what would be the point?) and be dead within days (at most).

And it doesn't make sense even within its own assumptions - because there is no serious reason for creation in the first place. No reason for anything at all.

Negatively speaking, these kinds of "modern" critiques of religion are correct - albeit they have no basis for making any criticism of anything!

This contrasts with my memory (and understanding) that we do not come into this world suffering such paradoxes and confusions - but inflict them upon ourselves by trying to make our

We need to be able to separate the question of the way things are - which is "objective"; from the question of why we personally care about it - which is bound to be personal, such that other people may rationally differ in their choices.

Francis Berger
12/16/2025 10:45:36

@ Bruce - Yes, in the end, ultimacy, if taken seriously, is just another kind of oneness theology with an enormous divine mystery underpinning it all.

Whenever I've asked ultimacy supporters why they think God created in the first place, I 've always been vehemently objected against for asking a question "that made no sense."

I'll be honest, that response has never made sense to me. How can asking about the purpose of anything, divine creation included, be considered nonsensical? I mean, I accept it when atheist/materials tell me that we will never the discover the purpose of the universe, but when Christians, especially those who pride themselves on being "proper Christians" tersely inform me that asking why God created is nonsensical question, I can't help but feel that something is seriously amiss.

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Mia
12/16/2025 18:26:40

When I was an atheist, it struck me that Christians- most especially Catholics and Fundamentalists- made idols of children in a very corrupting way (underlying the various abuse scandals one hears about). The Scriptural basis for this is obvious enough, but the idol has diverged from that: instead of idealizing the natural, spontaneous love that’s characteristic of children, they invent some sort of human ideal child that doesn’t ask questions that annoy their parents. Then as Christians I wonder if they try to imitate this ideal? Is that why it comes across as so false, because it’s a real adult falsely pretending to be an idol of a child?

My circles are American Fundamentalist and they spend tons of time and money on apologetics but without any idea how fake they seem to many people. They are interested in answering nonbeliever objections but aren’t themselves actually interested in those questions and answers, again like a parent trying to say the thing that gets the desired behavior from the child (even if they won’t lie to get it, the motivation is not to seek or speak truth). Similarly they are much more interested in shutting down wrong paths versus finding correct ones. This seems different from the necessary faith that God will ensure that you get what you personally need for salvation, knowing you won’t have it all correct.

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Francis Berger
12/17/2025 08:39:53

@ Mia - "This seems different from the necessary faith that God will ensure that you get what you personally need for salvation, knowing you won’t have it all correct."

Fundamentalist types, regardless of denomination, tend to heavily favor external factors over internal ones. They are very much in a "the truth is out there" mindset, and their solution to everything religious is that people should just get with the program -- more specifically, their program, which is God's program, hence, no other possible program can possibly exist. Once someone adopts this perspective, they will go to great lengths to maintain it, including denying the reality of their own lived experience as it contrasts with their beliefs and assumptions. Take freedom for example. Everyone lives the reality of their freedom, yet ultimacy types will deny or explain away the depth and reality of this freedom when it is set against their assumptions concerning God's ultimacy, which, when taken to their "ultimate" conclusions, leads to something resembling the sort of determinism that Calvinist types tend to adhere to.

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